Watched this programme on Channel 5 last night, not expecting a great deal, but it was one of the most balanced shows about a paranormal subject that I've ever seen.
The background: David Mandell, a retired lecturer, claims to have visions of the future that come to him in dreams. For years, he has painted pictures of these visions and made a photographic record of the paintings by taking photos of himself holding the pictures, beneath the wall clock of his local bank. He claims that some of these pictures have predicted in detail events like the Tokyo sarin gas attack, and the destruction of the WTC. His claims have made him little money or publicity, at least until now.
The scientific methodology employed by the makers of the programme was far and above anything usually seen in these kinds of TV shows, which usually pay only lip service to genuine investigation. Here, though, they did all the right things. They checked the photographic negatives, which showed no signs of tampering, and put the artist through a polygraph test, which he passed. They did surveys of interpretation, and they brought up possible holes in the story, like the fact that the bank's clock didn't show the year, or the possibility that the paintings had later been doctored (some of the paintings contained text recording additional details of the vision, which could plausibly have been added later). They talked about statistics, and the number of paintings done in total, and the fact that the artist's 'hits' were self-selected and chosen after the fact. Scientific tests were undertaken, all described on camera, and experts were consulted, including scientist and arch-sceptic James Randi (the inclusion of whom made me watch the show in the first place).
The case was fascinating and the artist did seem sincere in his beliefs; there was no evidence that he was trying to perpetrate a hoax, but the programme did fairly represent the views of experts that thought the matches were nothing more than vague coincidences coupled with flexible interpretations. The bottom line was inconclusive: there was no strong evidence that the man's gifts were real and not imaginary, but there was also no success in uncovering a deliberate hoax or a falsehood. James Randi, at the end of the show, seemed genuinely interested and invited the man to take on the JREF's $1m challenge. I hope he agrees, because I'd like to see more.
This is exactly the way these subjects should be approached -- with an open mind, but utilising rigorous testing and a dose of healthy scepticism to avoid jumping to conclusions. It was a fascinating piece of television and should serve as a model for future television shows about unexplained phenomena. Kudos to the producers.
I saw that too, agree entirely. Do you watch Derren Brown by any chance?
Nope. Who's Derren Brown?
For those who are interested, David Mandell was recently tested by researchers at Goldsmiths college, who found suggestive evidence supporting his claims.
I believe him having dreamt the future several times during the last 40 years... there are many cases.. people dream the lottery numbers etc... Randi is my kinda person and I totaly agree with all he says on perhapsology subjects .... but this man I know is telling the truth.
read AN EXPERIMET IN TIME by Dunne
we spend a quarter of our life in REM....
Interesting program. However, James Randi is a conjuror and showman, not a scientist and has no (as far as I am aware) scientific qualifications.
Just saw the repeat of the Man who paints the future; but there was no follow up, no effort to give us the latest info. Is there any? Has Mandell painted again?
Yes i saw the programme which was on Channel 5, this seemed spooky but fascinating by the way it was supported eg lie detector,the pictures he took.
This seems to be the only site to even have a mention of him. Anyone found any other websites?
Hmm.. just found one - http://www.spr.ac.uk/confprogramme.php3?year=2003#Savva_French
Any others?
David Mandell was my lecturer of Visual Research and other subjects while studying Musical Instrument Technology (Electronics, at the London College of Furniture in the early 1980's. I recall we had discussions about some of his work and seem to remember that he had some sort of 'experience'or 'revelation' but I have not been able to confirm this with former colleagues as yet.....
I found the show extremely tedious and the testing of Mantell's honesty was crudely done and unnecesary -I was never in any doubt that he believes in himself, and whether or not he makes any money out of his art is irrelevant.
Plane crashes, train crashes, and other mass deaths are not hard to imagine nor predict, and as tragic as these events are when they happen, they are to be expected. Given time and enough thought and interpretative licence, all of his predictions will be 'hits'.
This year I predict that 8000 pedestrians and cyclists will be killed and 300,000 more injured in the European Union; 10,000 Chinese miners will die in underground accidents, and another 10,000 will die from lung-related illnesses. Each day this week, and every week, I predict that about 100 Americans will die from gunshot wounds.
My point is this: the sudden, tragic, and high-profile death of a few hundred people in a single catastrophic event is but a small blip on an otherwise steady toll of death and tragedy that no psychic seems to care about. Instead, they only 'predict' the sensational events that are likely to happen eventually and will make the headlines. Occasionally, a psychic will get lucky and provide two, maybe three, details that fit an event. So what? Make prophesy your daily hobby, and you will occasionally score hits. Probability dictates it.
Someone above mentioned James Randi. It is precisely because he was conjurer that he often suspects trickery and challenges claimants to prove their powers. With regard to his $1,000,000 challenge and the controls involved, I quote: "The James Randi Educational Foundation does not involve itself in the testing procedure, other than helping to design the protocol and approving the conditions under which a test will take place. All tests are designed with the participation and approval of the applicant. In most cases, the applicant will be asked to perform a relatively simple preliminary test of the claim, which if successful, will be followed by the formal test. Preliminary tests are usually conducted by associates of the JREF at the site where the applicant lives. Upon success in the preliminary testing process, the "applicant" becomes a "claimant". To date, no one has ever passed the preliminary tests" (from www.randi.org/research/index.html).
I found that the way in which David Mandell actually accesses the future 'possibilities' very interesting indeed. Dreams are a person's Higher Self actually communicating with the conscious mind in the sleeping state through a series of symbols and metaphors.
Premonition within dream symbology is common and quite well known. How a person can access the Unified Energy Field, wherein all consciousness is contained relating to the past, present and future possibilities is relatively easy. For myself, I access information via a dowsing pendulum and many people have other ways of doing just that.
Remember that the existence of the 'Unified Field' or 'Mind of God' as Dr. Stephen Hawkin calls it, is scientifically proven. Please look it up on the Internet and make yourselves familiar with Lynne McTaggart's publications called 'The Field' and her master class 'Living the Field.' Many apparantly 'paranormal' things can be explained by this study and for myself, what used to be over and above normality, is quite normal now. In fact scientists are discovering that the whole physical world is like a gigantic hologram and that it is our consciousness that pulls events into being. We actually create our reality and we are master creators and co-creators of all events in our lives. Dr. Deepak Chopra is another person who is 'in the know,' so to speak and he is willing to spread the word. So is Gregg Braden, Dr. Masaru Emoto - there are many people who are understanding of situations like David Mandell finds himself in. One day the all of humanity will wake up to the fact that we are spiritual beings having a physical experience and that we are connected to all life via this Unified Field of amazing energy. Wow! It blows me away even now.... This is the reason that if humans harm other creatures and the planet Herself, they harm themselves.....(Therein lies another story.)
Best wishes from Penny Pullen
I was surprised that the programme did not attempt to provide a comparison between the air crash that happened in Sharm El Sheik recently and the air crash he predicted at the end of the programme, which apparently is to take place over water.
Comparing David Mandell’s detailed predictions and uncannily similar sketches to photographs that appeared in newspapers after the events with your regurgitation of known statistics is unbelievably lame on your part. Take the Tokyo subway gassing for example, the fact David Mandell stated it was a gassing, in Tokyo, on a train goes way beyond what you have just spewed. Add to this the fact he stated the gas had a strong smell when ordinarily the nerve agent used doesn’t smell at all but on this occasion had become contaminated so did, the fact he noted there were 100’s of leaflets in the train when the terrorist group responsible distributed the agent inside leaflets, the fact he identified those responsible coming from the hills and having a religious connection when the group were part of a doomsday cult that lived in the hills outside Tokyo seems to make your attempt at dismissing the prediction as mere coincidence rather weak. If he is not a fraudster I definitely find his predictions unnerving to say the least. I don’t think seeing into the future is nearly as far fetched as it seems. It depends how you perceive time. The norm is to see time as being linear. In the linear view, time flows in a line that moves horizontally from past to present to future at the same unchangeable speed for all of us. This is largely a western cultural world-view, apparently initiated by Newton some 300 years ago. It portrays time as an absolute physical reality, and says that the passage of time is independent of consciousness. So it doesn't matter what you think, feel, or do, or how you look at time, time doesn't change as a result. This is due to the way our conscious processes thoughts and events. The delay that occurs when our conscious mind processes information and thoughts gives us the impression we start out at one point in time and then move forward. This is reinforced by our use of clocks and calendars. Take away consciousness and you take away time. If you got knocked down by a car and was in a deep coma for a year what concept of time would you have for that period? The answer is none. The last thing you would remember is the car coming towards you and the next coming to in a hospital bed. But for all that time you were not dead, merely unconscious. Your brain was still active and able to process information, but it is doing it in subconscious mode which does apply time in the same way. If you stop thinking about time as being an absolute reality that moves in a line, the way our conscious mind perceives it to be, it is not so ludicrous to imagine how it may be possible to ‘short-circuit’ our perception of time and glimpse the future. Our conscious and subconscious continually interact, especially during sleep, but as yet scientists don’t understand anything of the workings of the subconscious and therefore are unable to explain how it may affect our perceptions and judgement. Who’s to say our subconscious, which does not perceive time as linear in the same way our conscious does, might be able to ‘see’ the future as well as the past, however unfathomable that may be to our conventional way of thinking. And who’s to say it does not occasionally pass on this information to our conscious mind during sleep? I can’t prove this is what happens in the same way you can’t prove it isn’t. This idea will no doubt be dismissed as paranormal hocus-pocus, but I usually find people who dismiss this kind of thinking in such a way have an innate fear of anything that cannot be rationalized or explained scientifically. It is the fear of being unable to explain or entirely understand something and as a result not able to pin it down or fit it into a neat, orderly compartment. Some people are afraid of anything they can’t fully understand, because this means it does not follow a predictable pattern and is therefore somewhat outside their control. In addition to this they believe not being able to fully understand or explain something is a weakness. I don’t mind there being things I can’t explain or understand, I am merely a human with a human’s limited ability to understand all the goings on in this world. The plain truth is there are many things we don’t, and can’t, understand. As human beings we aren’t capable of understanding everything, especially those which are outside our normal perception. This may not sit comfortably with most scientists, who by their very nature seek to fully understand, categorise and compartmentalise everything. There are many instances where people with this type of mentality are essential, so I won’t knock them. But as humans we have limited senses and understanding. If this is not the case why are we still incapable of understanding some of the fundamental ways our own minds work? We still know almost nothing of the subconscious, and how it interacts with the conscious. We are only beginning to understand how our brain ‘learns’ tasks and even this is being hotly debated by Neural scientists. We cannot understand or cure even basic human conditions like schizophrenia, chronic fatigue syndrome, sick building syndrome, tourette syndrome, cot deaths, male pattern baldness, stammering, etc, etc. Take stammering for example, something you would imagine would be fairly simple for our clever scientists to discover the cause of and explain, yet to this day none of those who have studied this condition can tell us what causes it or even whether is physical, psychological or physiological. When you think about it, our lack of understanding of our own condition is quite staggering, and that’s before we get into understanding things outside our ‘world’. We only understand and perceive the world with the equipment we were born with, those being the 7 senses. And how limited these senses are, our sense of hearing and smell is inferior to that of a dog, our sense or vision is inferior to that of an owl, our sense of taste is inferior to that of a snake, our sense of touch is inferior to that of a dolphin and so on. If we cannot hear a sound does it mean it does not exist? Or does it mean that our hearing system is simply incapable of registering it? If we can’t smell something does it mean it doesn’t exist? Or does it mean that our sense of smell is simply incapable of registering it? A dog picks up sounds that are beyond our range and therefore it can hear things that we can’t. Other animals can smell and see things which we can’t. That is not paranormal hocus-pocus, it is fact. If humans were all born colour-blind what would happen if by some freak of nature one person was born able to see colour and tried explaining this phenomena to the world. Scientists would have him down as a fraudster or at best deluded. If everything we had ever seen was in grey-scale we wouldn’t be able to begin to understand the concept of colour. In this world there are many things that us simple humans do not and cannot understand, because of our very real limitations. Begin to think about the immensity of the universe, try to realistically envisage it’s size or the fact it may be infinite. If it is finite, what is beyond it? You will soon reach your brain’s limit of understanding. If you claim you are able to understand this, it should be a simple task for you explain to me the cause and cure of the afore-mentioned red human conditions.
Scientists do not know everything. In fact, as far as life, the universe and everything goes they know very little. They are simply a group of people who have a fundamental belief that if something cannot be seen, measured and proven to exist beyond doubt it cannot be accepted as absolutely reality. It is just the way they are built. Years ago scientists dismissed the idea of life on other planets as the notions of crack-pots. However, in the last 30 years so much more has been discovered about the universe in terms of number of stars, galaxies and it’s workings that previously sceptical scientists, and the scientific community in general, has began to accept the idea life may well exist on other planets. Give them enough proof and they will eventually accept other notions which they currently dismiss. Until this can be achieved, they will continue to label anything that is not proven to be absolutely real as hocus-pocus.
Hi Penny,
Sorry, my post was a reply to Eddie, but it took so long to write it came after yours!! I am very interested what you wrote, I will look up the reading material you mentioned in your post. Like me, you seem to believe all these things will one day become accepted and see pretty normal. T.C. Lethbridge is had many interesting ideas about time, consciousness, etc. If you haven't read any of his writings you may find him interesting :-)
When Keith Hearne (one of Mandell's supporters) was getting David Mandell to attempt to draw something he'd seen in an experiment for the programme they showed a pencil drawing of a plane and some buildings. The show said the results were not very impressive - but that Mandell rang back a few days later with the London City Airport painting. Did anyone else out there recognise a famous building in the pencil-drawn version he did first? I hope I wasn't the only one to recognise it - no one on the programme seemed to spot it.
Wow, great to see discussion on an old entry spontaneously reignite. I, too, am surprised that there's little apparent mention of this compelling programme (or, indeed, this case) elsewhere on the Web. I remember there was some discussion on the JREF forum at the time, but I never saw anything else.
I watched the program on its original run and missed the recent repeat, so my memory of it is now quite hazy. Maybe it'll be repeated sometime on cable (I believe it's been shown on Discovery) and I'll be able to catch it again and respond to more of these points.
scoman: I referred to Randi as a scientist because he is a scientifically-minded person, not because he's a professional scientist... although it could be argued that his role in debunking illegitimate pseudoscience and educating the public is a sufficient service to science that he nevertheless qualifies.
Nick: wow, great comment. Nothing to add, I just thought I'd remark that you probably wrote more words there than I have posted to this blog in any three-month period :)
James: Your message is intriguing. What landmark was it that you saw in the first picture?
Isn't it fascinating to simply observe the anger triggered in people who choose to attack and ridicule a particular subject. My experience is that when that level of emotion is triggered in someone it always has its roots in FEAR!
When anyone invests that amount of energy and time in the useless activity of attack it immediately blows their cover for me.
I have never heard of James Randi but I know there are thousands like him who, as a result of their fear of what they do not understand, set up websites attacking those who do.
See the sites which ridicule the work of Deepak Chopra for the same reason - and of course the envy of people who are making a wonderful income out of their wrok. Good luck to them. These people also gift millions to good causes.
The simple answer is what Einstein bought to the world with his E = MC2. EVERYTHING is energy and if everything is energy then ANYTHING is possible.
Silently witmessing all that is.
John Campbell
John, I respect your opinion, but my view is quite different. I think that while anger is often the motivation for anyone 'attacking' people who claim paranormal abilities, that the root of this anger is not fear.
Like it or not, for every David Mandell who exists with a compelling case that might one day be explained and accepted, there are ten other individuals who are manipulating the gullibility of the public for their own financial or personal gain, and whose claims can be completely debunked with just a little common sense. I don't know which group Deepak Chopra belongs in, as I am unfamiliar with his work, but a good way to identify the people in this second group is if they're trying to sell you something expensive.
Who doesn't get angry when they see somebody who profits from their own dishonesty? How is selling useless trinkets or services under false pretences any different to, say, cheating at poker when playing for money? And let's not forget the lowest of the low, those who 'talk to the dead', who use age-old carnival tricks to exploit and profit from people's feelings of loss and bereavement. How sick.
I think this is a better explanation than 'fear' for the anger that is often directed at anyone promoting some fringe product or claiming some unusual ability. The anger is, to some extent, righteous. Surely you accept that a sizable percentage of the supernatural 'community' (I use this term only vaguely) is, sadly, made up of scammers, frauds and greedy con-artists.
There are many who believe, of course, and who have no agenda beyond the wish to help other people, and whether they are right or wrong is largely irrelevant to this discussion since their intentions are pure. But this is a minority, and because the unscrupulous kind don't exactly glow in the dark, it can be difficult to tell someone genuine from someone who only wants your wallet's contents.
If sceptics tend too quickly towards distrust (I think many do, and I count myself among that number), then this is because of the overwhelming number of plain fraudsters that they encounter, and the held opinion that being too harsh is preferable to being too gullible.
Well so far no one else has said they recognised the building. Hopefully some of you will have this programme on video so you can go back and look again. In the pencil drawing Mandell sketched - there was a plane wing with two jet engines, then to the left a building that looked like a cathedral (not identifiable) - but to the right was that new 'gherkin' building (sorry can't remember its correct name or occupier) in London. Mandell had not drawn the correct shape but the lines denoting windows were almost identical to the diagonal design all the way round the gherkin building. It's only a few seconds flight from London City airport.
Important question: what is the (average) lead time between one of his dreams and an even happening. I think he dreamt 9/11 in 1996 (?).
Another question: do the dreams occur in the same order the events they represent occur? Or are they staggered?
A final question: did they alert the City Airport to the possibility of what may be about to happen (so that their readiness levels are raised?)
All your thoughts on these points most welcome.
thanks
James.
I agree with CLC that many people attacking the "paranormal" are not fearful, just angry at the selfish and greedy fraudsters that exist. However, james randi represents a strain of thought that represents the worst approach to science possible. That is the absolute outright refusal to accept even the possibility of certain things being possible. science is supposed to be about the readiness to discover NEW ideas and explanations. he belongs to the same group of people that said space travel was impossible, that the earth was flat and all the other people that held on to since disproved ideas. I'm not saying Randi is necessarily wrong, but his approach is to dismiss the possibility of the "paranormal" outright.
I only join this discussion as i regularly have dreams of fairly inoccuous events that happen to me and that come true usually within a few weeks. preminition or coincidence i don't know, but as i also regularly suffer sleep paralysis (a very interesting read on some web sites, or ask your doctor about it) im very interested in different explanations about the sub-concious sleeping mind. mine seems to throw up some VERY surreal and entertaining nonsense most nights!
I saw this program and it was very well done. With a fair decision on everything it had the sceptics struggling for lame excuses
I felt that the programme bordered on the offensive at times, with Bernard Hill's derisory commentary running through it. I don't think questioning the man's veracity by implying that he could be dishonest because there is no year date on the clock at Barclay's or by seeing if he has tried to make money out of his gift is very helpful indeed. Another whitewash where there could have been a more level-headed and even-handed approach. Perhaps Channel 5 should just stick to what they do best and that's charting the life and times of Hitler and his minions.
Very convincing programme until I noticed that no one picked up on his picture of WTC being photographed on WEDNESDAY September 11th in Barclays Bank (supposedly in 1997) when September 11th fell on a Thursday that year!!! Any comments?
The programme took a balanced approach. It has to raise those questions that would anyway occur to viewers. We would have been asking if he makes money form it and why there was no year on the bank-clock. Anyway - the commentary emphasised repeatedly that David Mandell had passed each and every test they set - so I'd hardly classify it as derisory!
On a different note - do any of you remember dreams for years? I seem to be able to remember some dreams from several years ago. Later events seem as if they fit such dreams - just personal events - not general events.
JAMES,
yes, i rememeber some dreams for years, and as ive posted above some of mine come true, but they are very innocuous things in my daily life, conversations, places etc. The prgrammes showed that mandell made no money (his house was fairly poor looking). But no one seems to be focusing on the fact that there are hundreds of dreams that DONT come true. I dont think mandell is a fraudster, but i am tempred to conclude people ALWAYS read too much into these things. I like many people WANT to believe in these powers but i'm not convinced!
I guess if there's a plane crash at London City Airport in the next couple of years then one could say it was predicted. Then again you can use detailed stats to predict when the next crash will take place and possibly even where it's likely to happen. Satistically these things will recur again and again.
There was a documentary a few years ago (called 'The Flow of Time') with Sir Roger Penrose that seemed to be suggesting that time can be all one - that in a very real sense past, present and future exist 'now'. Penrose said he took comfort from this because it meant that his mother was still in a real sense 'alive'. I've no idea what theories this was based on (and would never be able to understand them anyway) - but if this is remotely correct it could suggest a mechanism whereby Mandell perceives something that has happened in the 'future'. It's actually something that has already happened, that is happeneing 'now' and simultaneously has not yet happened.
A further implication of this could be that I have not yet been born yet, that I am already dead and in fact, that we have all already died. How can we be in all these states simultaneously? Maybe that part of us that perceives time is only a limited part.
Anyway - this could be one way of explaining what's going on.
the channel five programme certainly made me sit up. Before the Iraq War , a friend who seems to have certain powers of seeing the future , thought that Westminster Abbey was to be a target in the terrorist war. Imagine my amazement when David Mandell had also drawn it , in association with an airport , city airport , even more amazing that westminster Abbey lies almost directly west of city airport , the airport running east /west.
Does anyone know where can i get pictures of the paintings?? I'm trying to convince my sceptical friend.
I wonder if there's anyone here who could forward me to a website which has some of his artwork on display.
Rgds.,
Aster.
Was David Mandell lying, absolutely not. Is David Mandel delusional, quite possibly. What is David Mandel's hit rate ?
It can be quite high when you don't specify a timescale in which the attack or whatever is due to happen and give a general indication of the location of the attack.
Aster,
Search in Google - then search within result to narrow your search.
I tried a searching briefly but there are a lot of David Mandells'.
By the way - use quote-marks to find a single name - "David Mandell".
let us know how you get on
James
Don, I was interested to know the lead-time between a dream and a possibly connected event. It looks like several years. I think his 9/11 dream was in 1996.
That means a London City Airport crash could be due anytime in the next 5 years - would a statistician predict that anyway?
james...
im pessimistically inclined to believe that statistics are a big factor here. everyone dreams, therefore the chances of some people dreaming things that later actually happen is very high. its a common phenomenon that people will tend to notice more things that SEEM unusual. (e.g. the dreams that come true) and not notice things that blend in (i.e. any particular innocuous dream that is not much different to any other). how many of mandell's dreams that he paints don't come true? if you close your eyes and randomly hit the keys on a keyboard, occasionally you will spell out words and sentances. it would be those recognisable words and sentences that would attract most attention and interest. remembering dreams itself can be quite difficult so i suspect mandell only remembers particualrly significant dreams, or has trained himself to rememeber because of his apparent "skill" and remembers so many that it increases his chances of some of them coming true. i would also imagine this makes him more likely to dream about horrifc events than people normally would.
I had similar experience as David Mandell prior to 911. Can anyone help me get in touch with him. I need to speak to him about the vision I had today (23 JAN 2004).
my email is javaidsoomro@yahoo.com
Hey. I dodnt see the programme unfortunately but saw David Mandell on the Heaven and Earth show totally by accident. It caught my eye because over the past 15 years i too have dreams which then become reality. nothing major or significant as they all seem to be things which i'm involved with. The first dream i remember like this happened when i dreamt of myself in my grandma's living room with a cousin, my mum, my grandma and an aunt. My aunt said something, a very obscure and strange word which made us all laugh. That was it. That was the dream. About 2/3 weeks later, that actually took place. word for word, everyone sat in the same place, wearing the same clothes. That happened when i was really young, around 7/8. I always thought deja-vu was what i was experiencing until i told someone and they said that it was quite different to what i was going through. It was more just a feeling then actually seeing the events in a dream. Anyway, i guess i must believe in David Mandell's ability and hope that i can have his level of control and detail so that maybe i can remember things after a dream rather than as the aevents are unfolding.
David,
I saw him on Sunday morning too - managed to get a video in to tape it.
Your experience is unusual in being so precise. I've had dreams that events seem to fit years later. But at the time the dream is so vague that I couldn't predict anything from it. I just remember it years later when a narrow set of circumstances seems to fit it prefectly.
Do you ever record your dreams for future reference?
James
I have had many precognitive dreams and have written about my experiences in an article published last year in the magazine 'Black Diamond', entitled 'I am a Human Seismograph'. Those interested might like to read the book 'The Sense of Being Stared At' by the biologist Rupert Sheldrake, which has many instances of precognition, including many relating to 9/11. For a copy of my article, please e-mail me at me.foster@btopenworld.com.
I wish some one would set-up a website for David Mandell. That way his pictures could be scanned and posted on the website as and when he produces them. If the predicted event then happens, there can be no doubt about the authenticity. I'd also like to know whether Mandell predicted the recent events in Madrid. Seems there has been no real follow up since the programme was broadcast.
I believe that I know David Mandell from some other time and would he please be informed of the fact that I'm waiting for him in a fairly horseless situation here. When will you flit over here hoof over mouth? Or even a psychic horse? Of course things happen. That,boys and girls, is all going on now.
Just caught the repeate of the programme tonight on five (May 16th Channel 5). Veeeeeeery interesting. A couple of points (assuming anyone is still interested). As a recent New Scientist special on the paranormal pointed out, the whole issues boils down to this programme: on whom does the burden of truth lie? To 'believer' it is 'self-evident' that such things happen. Therefore they will only change their mind if it is PROVEN that telepathy etc do NOT exist. But proving a negative is, notoriously, very hard to do.
For sceptics on the other hand, the boot is on the other foot.
My own personal opinion is that we have to be with the sceptics on this one. Despite what some people have posted, many many many of the laws of physics would be disproven if precognition turned out to be true. That doesn't of course mean that it is false: but it does show that the burden of proof lies with the believer.
Given that this is the case, i think Randi was right to leave the matter where it is. Mandell is either a very good fraud, someone who has persuaded himself that he is real, or the real thing. Which is it?
Well it's up for him to try and prove it is the third isn't it? He has to get up and enter the Randi prize. The fact that he HASN'T (and that this programme is a repeat) indicates either that he has something to hide, or else that his powers aren't all they are cracked up to be.
My own personal opinion is that most of his pictures are so vague they could be interpreted to mean anything, and that the REAL hits (twin towers , Tokyo, etc)....I'm sorry but they MUST have been painted after the event. The Tokyo one in particular.
However i could be wrong. Perhaps he really does have psychic powers, who knows? But the fact that he has had now about four years to apply for the Randi prize and has not done so (despite the fact that he obviously needs the money) speaks volumes.
Laura, are you ok?
Well i just caught the programme on 5 (i guess the 3rd time it's been on, and i agree, it's not really like 5 to go into such decent scientific analysis.
Much as i would like to believe him, it's hard, given that i'm more inclined to err on the side of the sceptic, especially based on some of the points raised here (like the guy who said that one photo taken on Sept 11 was on the wrong day). However, the pics of the supposed Dunblane pic and the Tokyo pic were pretty unnerving. Who knows? All i know is that it seems this guy really isn't your a-typical conjurer looking to make a sack of loot out of something which seems to more than anything, frustrate him, in that he doesn't know why it's happening to him (again someone hinted at him being delusional, but he seemed fairly coherent on the programme for the most part).
Anyhoo, i wonder aswell, why there has been no follow up. Like Nick said above, someone should set up a basic website for this guy. I was surprised after watching the programme that this was really the only site where i could find info on the case and David. I wish i had taped it now, as i would like to have gone back and seen if the pic of the "gherkin" really was there, as i was focusing more on the pic of the engines and the cathedral he had drawn. Who knows - we live in dangerous, unsettled times and the thought - no matter how awful and disturbing it is - of a plane crashing or being flown into something in London is not out of the question, you don't need to paint much to know that that might not be something totally unrealistic.
Anyway it was an interesting programme - if anyone has done any follow up, or knows of any, please post.
Dave
Yeah, Laura, lie down, feel better soon.
I've been reading the James Randi Website stuff, and that'll definitely give you a view on those out to take the gullible for every penny. If you want more evidence that few psychics are genuine, buy four daily papers and compare their horoscopes. They should at least be similar, right?
As to the man Mandell, I don't know. The evidence int he programme on 5 was compelling, but we didn't get to see many pictures, and the timescale wasn't really covered. The 9/11 pictures were years ahead, yet he said he dreamed of bombs falling on his local park as a boy and it happened days later. The tokyo sarin attack was only five years after his painting, I think, and the IRA mortar attack on the airport was nearer still.
I don't think he's trying to fool anyone, and there's no question about him making a fortune - he isn't. He believes it. The question has to be, can any of the pictures be used to prevent the tragedies they depict, or are the events unavoidable?
I saw the repeat of the program on ch5. But at the time of the concorde crash i was in france and not very far away at the time of the accident. I had dreamed of a delta wing aircraft catching fire from underneath the wing about one month before it happened. On the day we were going to go to Disneyland Paris, but I decided not to go that day. And then we heard about it on the radio. I saw the spark of the fuel tank in my dream. I seemed to be just underneath the fuselage to the left side and it was as if I was flying along and watching the whole thing. At the time of my dream I thought nothing of it as i new that there had been no concordes that had ever crashed since they started commercially. And when it did happen I was very surprised & shocked by it all. But this is not the first time that I have had weird things happen. Once when we went to germany several things happened; a small aircraft crashed into a small belgian town that had never had anything happen in years and was practically unknown. Then a tanker crashed into a shop in a small German town. And the ferry that we had travelled on sank within weeks of us getting home. This is just a small sample.
i saw the show and i too really need to get i contact with david mandell,i have had visions(dreams)from being a child, i know the future and seriously need help to get my head round it as it stop's me leading a normal life.......please if david reads this please get intouch i am as important to you as you are to me i have lots of questions about what ive seen i know you know about the other things
Very good program. Do you have an e-mail address for David Mandell? Would like to write to him.
Another comment on the déjà vu situation with reference to dream premonitions.
I have had déjà vu moments for as long as I can remember - as in fact have many people that I have discussed it with. It was about 10 years ago when I started to question myself as to where I had experienced the moment before which is when I started realising that I had dreamt the moments. This then scared me beyond belief as I started beliving that I was predicting events through my dreams. After dreaming one night (about 8 years ago) that my young nephew would have a fatal accident I was beside myself with anguish, having dreamt about the circumstances leading to his death I began to panic - thinking that I was now in a position to stop this from happening - a tremendous emotional strain. Thankfully the event did not happen and he has grown up healthily. I do however, regularly dream of situations that do actually happen (usually mundane)- indeed whilst they are happening I will say to a friend there at the time - ''this is a déjà vu this is what's going to happen next''and it spooks us all out! I imagine that David Mandell has many dreams that not only come true but also terrible ones that don't (that may be a product of his imagination) and if this is true I really feel for him. He must bear some weight on his shoulders to think that he may be in a position to effect the outcome of these dream premonitions.
I would be interested to know how David came to the attention of Channel 5. What we may be witnessing here is a cry for help from David. I don't think that David is alone here - I think that David has specific gifts in remembering these dreams and then in translating them to paper in a fashion. Many of us forget our dreams if we are disturbed causing us to wake, we may not then remember them until an event triggers our memory.
If David is reaching out by telling the world what he experiencing I don't think the Ch5 commentary derising him was particularly helpful. I think Channel 5 should do a follow-up to this program, and should look for people that are having similar experiences but perhaps don't know how to communicate them so well - I'm guessing there's lots of us out there.
Also I understand that 'déjà vu' translated from French means 'already seen', does anyone know when this phrase was first coined and what context was it historically used? I'm sure there's a story here that may point to similar experiences told in the past? I'd be interested if any one knows more about this?
Laura, hope you're feeling much better now. Mark (May 17) - are you friends with Laura? Martin (May 17) - tell me where you're going on holiday - I wanna be somewhere else - two plane crashes, a sinking and a major road accident in areas you've been visiting? Anything you want to share with us?
Guys and gals, instead of endless speculation on whether it's real or not, and taking on board Brendan's point about who is to prove what - why not try a different tack?
Let's assume (because David Mandell and many many others including David and Martin above have had some experience of what could be premonition) that something real IS going on. Next think of ways that could explain HOW it could be real - that don't violate ordinary theories of the structures of the world we're in.
Obviously, this implies I've tried to think along these lines and I do have some weird and far-out possibilities (I'm never sure if they're things I've thought up - or just syntheses of ideas and snippets I've picked up from others along the way). Laura, you'd probably be with me on some of my ideas!
I'm interested in hearing your ideas - what 'mechanisms' or alternate views/assumptions about 'reality' could possibly explain how smeone might 'perceive' the 'future'?
looking forward a new direction in this discussion maybe.
thanks, James.
i think this is a spectacular gift which could help prevent devestating events
i think this is a spectacular gift which could help prevent devestating events
I beleive in the premonition effect myself having experienced it myself.Im trying to track down the picture of an event near a cathedral,which I seem to think is Derby.Any useful suggestions?
I beleive in the premonition effect myself having experienced it myself.Im trying to track down the picture of an event near a cathedral,which I seem to think is Derby.Any useful suggestions?
Maverick,
Try searching in Google -then search within results. Has this Derby event happened already? you're searcing for a report of it?
James.
Maverick you worry me now because I live in Derby - what was the event that you mention?
James in response to your question I wonder about the theory of time as a linear mechanism - there seems to be v. interesting discussions available around this theory. Given that people seem to be able to recall distant events from their subconscious i.e through regression, could we therefore retrieve events from the future from our subconscious i.e through our dreams?
Does anyone know if this programme is to be repeated or where copies can be obtained.
I haven't made any money either. I did it just for intuition's sake :-)
http://web.wt.net/~anart/omen.html
I haven't made any money either. I did it just for intuition's sake :-)
http://web.wt.net/~anart/omen.html
-THX
Are there any updates to this site, like newly painted pictures perhaps?
the problem with dreams that predict the futer is and ill give an example, newyork could be hit by an earthquakenext week and the statue of liberty might topple into the sea BUT on the same day I might descover a realy delissious and new chocolate bar or see a realy funny article, now since all dreams emerge from the subconcious and deal with what is important and stimulating to that, lower, part of the minds conciousness which event am i going to dream about? it could be the earth quake but then again it could be the chocolate bar it all depends on which event is more stimulating to the subconcious and NOT on whatmakes it onto CNN or news24... this is the problem.
to be considered evidence this ability to see things that have yet to happen has to be testable this type of events have happenened to me many times so here for the professor karl popper readers is a predition. Rotterdam will have a bridge collapse a huge explosion by terrorists ,it will create major difficulty in the world oil supply when this is due is not known but the guess is 1/2 years
I just saw the show last night and I think it is very interesting and spooky that David Mandell has had such dreams. I am in no doubt that he is telling the truth. For examle the painting he drew before the Dunblaine incident - he drew exactly 16 pupils and a teacher which is the same number that really were murdered by Colin (forget the second name) If a plane does crash on the London City Airport runway, my beliefs in this man's powers will be raised even higher.
I, for one, certainly won't be flying into London City Airport for a while anyway!
Anyone know if David Mandell dreamt of the Asian sea surge disaster?
That night (it would have been the time of the tsunami as Asia is GMT +7) I dreamt I was standing on a beach watching a huge wave a quarter of a mile out at sea building up and coming towards the shore. I was frightened as I knew it was going to come right over me, but I stayed where I was just looking at it coming towards me. The wave went over my head and I was surprised in my dream to find myself staying rooted to the spot instead of being dragged along by the wave. When I woke up in the morning I told my wife about the dream. After we got up she turned on the TV and we saw the news. I just looked at the TV in disbelief saying "Thats what I dreamt last night".
I have had other dreams where I have predicted things. The one before was just 3 weeks ago when I dreamt of an old lady dying. I told my wife about the dream as soon as I woke up. I said I had a feeling either my Granny or a work colleague (who’s grandmother had been ill) had died. I then forgot about it, but at 4pm that day while in the office I overheard another work colleague speaking to the girl in question and saying he was sorry to hear the bad news. After they finished talking and the work colleague had gone I said to him, her Granny has died hasn’t she? he replied ‘Yes, this morning, who told you?’. I told him about the dream. I described the dream to him, including the distinctive brown fur the old lady in my dream who had died wore around her neck. A few days later the work colleague who’s Granny had died came to work wearing a brown fur around her neck, when someone asked where she had got it from she said, it had been her grandmothers.
I don't understand how or why I am able to do this. It has been happening to me since I had a very strange spiritual experience earlier this year.
I do not live in the UK so therefore have not seen the Channel 5 program. My interest in David Mandell stems from an interesting article I read on him while on holiday in the UK. Daily Mail, Saturday December 1 2001. Reporter; Richard Pendlebury.
The final paragraph from that article reads as follows...
"A final tip: if you are convinced that there is something in Mr Mandell's dreaming then I wouldn't book a holiday in Hawaii.
He's had another of his earthquake dreams. And if you don't believe me, ask Barclays Bank".
Question:
A painting depicting palm trees, idylic islands, sun bathing tourists etc. Was it Hawaii or possible Phuket, Phi Phi Island etc..??
Food for thought.
I'm a reporter on the Harrow Observer who spoke to David last week about the disaster. He claims he did envision the tsunami disaster back in 1997. We have an article in the paper published on 7th January 2005.
Hello...have you seen this premonition?
The story of Omen, 5x7 ft. acrylic on canvas...painted one year prior to the WTC attacks, is posted at the following websites and in John Marquardt's book Premonitions of September 11.
Book: http://www.prweb.com/releases/2002/10/prweb47809.htm
September 11 News: http://www.september11news.com/Mysteries3.htm
Fort Rade Wonderland: http://www.fortrade.ch/paranormal/html/myegallery
.php?&do=showpic&pid=40&orderby=dateD
Paranormal Phenomena: http://paranormal.about.com/library/blgallery19.htm
Dream Listener: http://www.dreamlistener.com/dreams.htm
UK Psychics: http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=
202054&messageid=1074085626&lp=1085583138
Artist's personal website: www.anart.exegesis.nu
Best regards,
Charles Wm. Burwell III
the man how paints the future is my uncel
Hi D. Shah,
I know during the TV program last year David said he dreamt of a terrorist attack or disaster in London. Could what happened today in London be it??
Have you spoken to today and has he said anything about this? It’s very uncanny to say the least.
Nick
I am a person that has a LOT of deja vu... just last night i had some that spooked me out...
i have a reoccuring dream that i told to someone and it spooked them out......as it seems that i described something that actually occurred 200 years ago to a member of my family that i had no knowledge of...
i'd be interested in keeping upto date on this one.....
Sam
Keep up the great work on your blog. Best wishes WaltDe
Ever since I read an experiment in time by Dunne many years ago I too have realised that we can see the future in some dreams.... read it! I beleive in Science totally but this is also fact one dream I had that is yet to play is the collapse of the high building in London with the house type roof on. I dreamt of this in 1998 and still wait for it to happen... if and when it does ... you rad it here first!
I was a student of David Mandells in 1996-7 and I remember him showing us the drawing on our first lesson in which we did bugger all work but learned all about his psychic drawings. The picture is absolutely not a fake and I was freaked when I was it happen on TV
WOW!! There was a crash landing at London City airport today!!! AMAZING!!! THIS GUY PAINTED THE FUTURE!!
Love photography. Love pretty much everything about it. I love to talk about it. I love to dream about it. I see the wonderful inspiring shots online and wish I can be the one taking it. yeah, that's my dream. SBG
Stephen Hawking is recently in the news for suggesting (if I properly understand him) that the universe could have come into being without the assistance of God. Given his own lamentable condition, I can't help wondering if he feels he could similarly get by without the assistance of God himself...
Stephen Hawking has been recently in the news for saying (if I have this right) that the universe could have originated without the assistance of God. Given his own sad condition, I can't help wondering if he feels he could similarly get by without the assistance of God himself...
How do you think this will continue or be affected in the next 5 years?
That was certainly an interesting read.. It reminds me of a story my nephew had told me, I will be sure to send this on to him.
Interesting observation about a not often addressed topic. It reminds me of a story my nephew had told me, I will be sure to send this on to him.
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